The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

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wnetmacman
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote:Not sure how Winn-Dixie still survives in Louisiana, they seem to have updated the facade (store lettering only) of an old 1970s specimen in Rayne that had "The Beef People" still on the sign, and in Lafayette, there was a classic 1980s Winn-Dixie Marketplace (at least the facade, no idea on inside). Given how dated many of the stores are, not sure how Rouses could pick them up.

That said, they have a good showing in New Orleans (no other regional/national chain besides Rouses, which is almost exclusively found there) and Baton Rouge (competing against independents but also Albertsons).
The Rayne store is the only major player in town. It's a very intact 80's store, with some modern touches. The Deli-Bakery is still together and does well. There are two smaller stores in town, but they are far removed from this one. The sign upgrade is very recent, and they moved the faces of the old sign to the I-10 side of the store.

The Lafayette store you saw was most likely the Ambassador Caffrey store. It does well because the closest stores to it are an Albertsons that is, well, misplaced; and the old Winn Dixie in Scott that's now a Piggly Wiggly. It's pretty isolated, and it does have the original 90's interior. Only one store west of the Mississippi has been fully remodeled, and that's the Breaux Bridge store; it was redone just after Walmart opened the Supercenter there.

If you saw the Moss Street store, that's a different case. That store has been added and modified so many times it's hard to tell what was where. I do know this; that store and Rayne were of the same build at almost the same time. The Moss Street store was expanded because prior to Walmart and Albertsons, there was NO competition on that side of town. Even now, it's the only real player in that neighborhood. Its interior is from the 90's. It originally had a cafe and a salad bar that have been removed. There is a lot of open space in this store. I work very close to it, and go there often. I'm really waiting for them to close it.

Rouses buys these stores because they're cheap; WD wants out of them, and will do so at pretty much any price. Raceland was a dog; it was far from the DC and hard to get to from there. It was a no-brainer to sell that one. Ponchatoula is a mystery to me; the DC is just up I-55 in Hammond, so it's close to there. Walmart just opened a Supercenter there as well; that may have factored into the decision to sell.

I wouldn't call the showing in New Orleans and Baton Rouge good any more. New Orleans is and always has been a strange place. Independents do far better; go to Dorignac's in Metairie or any of the Breaux Mart stores. Rouses is doing incredibly well there. The local guys listen to their customers and do what is dictated; WD survives by doing what they've always done. Even Albertsons has drastically reduced the presence in Baton Rouge.
Scott Greer
pseudo3d
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by pseudo3d »

wnetmacman wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:Not sure how Winn-Dixie still survives in Louisiana, they seem to have updated the facade (store lettering only) of an old 1970s specimen in Rayne that had "The Beef People" still on the sign, and in Lafayette, there was a classic 1980s Winn-Dixie Marketplace (at least the facade, no idea on inside). Given how dated many of the stores are, not sure how Rouses could pick them up.

That said, they have a good showing in New Orleans (no other regional/national chain besides Rouses, which is almost exclusively found there) and Baton Rouge (competing against independents but also Albertsons).
The Rayne store is the only major player in town. It's a very intact 80's store, with some modern touches. The Deli-Bakery is still together and does well. There are two smaller stores in town, but they are far removed from this one. The sign upgrade is very recent, and they moved the faces of the old sign to the I-10 side of the store.

The Lafayette store you saw was most likely the Ambassador Caffrey store. It does well because the closest stores to it are an Albertsons that is, well, misplaced; and the old Winn Dixie in Scott that's now a Piggly Wiggly. It's pretty isolated, and it does have the original 90's interior. Only one store west of the Mississippi has been fully remodeled, and that's the Breaux Bridge store; it was redone just after Walmart opened the Supercenter there.

If you saw the Moss Street store, that's a different case. That store has been added and modified so many times it's hard to tell what was where. I do know this; that store and Rayne were of the same build at almost the same time. The Moss Street store was expanded because prior to Walmart and Albertsons, there was NO competition on that side of town. Even now, it's the only real player in that neighborhood. Its interior is from the 90's. It originally had a cafe and a salad bar that have been removed. There is a lot of open space in this store. I work very close to it, and go there often. I'm really waiting for them to close it.

Rouses buys these stores because they're cheap; WD wants out of them, and will do so at pretty much any price. Raceland was a dog; it was far from the DC and hard to get to from there. It was a no-brainer to sell that one. Ponchatoula is a mystery to me; the DC is just up I-55 in Hammond, so it's close to there. Walmart just opened a Supercenter there as well; that may have factored into the decision to sell.

I wouldn't call the showing in New Orleans and Baton Rouge good any more. New Orleans is and always has been a strange place. Independents do far better; go to Dorignac's in Metairie or any of the Breaux Mart stores. Rouses is doing incredibly well there. The local guys listen to their customers and do what is dictated; WD survives by doing what they've always done. Even Albertsons has drastically reduced the presence in Baton Rouge.
Well, Winn-Dixie did open a new store in N.O. just a few years ago, and they seem to have just as much (if not more) stores in the Baton Rouge area than Albertsons. I'm sure that Winn-Dixie does do things by "tradition", but a stronger player will force that out. Curious as to what the end-game is for Winn-Dixie, do they even really want Louisiana anymore?
--
By the way, I did visit the Albertsons on Ambassador Caffery down the road. Nice place, a bit empty...seems like it's one of those circa-2000 stores that had better looks than location if you know what I mean.
wnetmacman
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by wnetmacman »

Winn Dixie stays here because they still (somehow) make money here. There are 10 stores west of the Mississippi River (excluding New Orleans). They are:

Breaux Bridge, Rees St. - Older store (pre 1980) but heavily expanded and remodeled into the Marketplace format. Only one in the group to be remodeled to current decor. Uses the 80's facade.
New Roads, Hospital Road - Same as Breaux Bridge, but not remodeled.
Lafayette, 3903 Moss Street - Same song, no remodel, just new signage outside. Facade updated after expansion.
Franklin, next to Walmart (non-supercenter, one of only 2 Division 1 stores left in the state) - Expanded, but kept the original 80's facade idea.
Eunice, W. Laurel - Just like the previous four. Not the only player in town, but survives somehow. 80's Facade.
Lafayette, Ambassador Caffrey - Finally, some change. Built in the mid to late 90's; was a new Marketplace build replacing the store in Scott.
New Iberia, between Main and Center streets (which run parallel) - Similar to Ambassador Caffrey, but a different design. Replaced a store on Admiral Doyle.
Crowley, N. Parkerson - Same design as New Iberia. Replaced a store down the street.
Abbeville, LA14 Bypass - Same as the previous three.
Rayne, The Boulevard - the 80's store I previously mentioned. This is the Winn-Dixie I remember from childhood.

In the midst of all of this, there are many dozens of stores that have been closed in this area:
Lake Charles
Jennings (was very similar to Moss St.)
Opelousas
Bunkie
Alexandria, Pineville and Tioga
Natchitoches
Winnsboro
Lafayette - a second Ambassador store and Pinhook Road, both built at the same time as the other Ambassador store
New Iberia - West Main/Center
Oakdale
Ville Platte (similar to Franklin)

Most of these were lost during the bankruptcy. Natchitoches closed in 1997, Alexandria in 1992. Winnsboro was Brookshires for a while. Pineville and Opelousas are both Super 1 Foods now. New Iberia is a Roses. Ville Platte was split three ways, as was Jennings. The Ambassador Lafayette store and Bunkie still stand empty. The Pinhook Lafayette store is a church. Natchitoches is now Stage, and Tioga is a Mac's Fresh Market.
Scott Greer
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by pseudo3d »

By the way, I noticed the Greenwell Springs location in Baton Rouge closed about a year ago, something that wasn't reported in local press. As far as I know, it still sits empty. It's not the best part of town, but I was wondering if it's a candidate for Albertsons or Rouses to pick up.
wnetmacman
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote:It's not the best part of town, but I was wondering if it's a candidate for Albertsons or Rouses to pick up.
Rouses has only, in the past, picked up a working store. If it's been closed a year, WD has most likely stripped it.

Albertsons isn't expanding in this area, as of yet. They closed several stores in the Baton Rouge area a few years back.
Scott Greer
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by pseudo3d »

wnetmacman wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:It's not the best part of town, but I was wondering if it's a candidate for Albertsons or Rouses to pick up.
Rouses has only, in the past, picked up a working store. If it's been closed a year, WD has most likely stripped it.

Albertsons isn't expanding in this area, as of yet. They closed several stores in the Baton Rouge area a few years back.
I'm not aware of any Albertsons that closed in BR off the top of my head. By and large they survived both the collapse of the Houston division and the vicious closures that affected the LLC stores. There was a Super Saver that closed, and of course, the short-lived Mandeville store, but amidst all the closures, they did open the Denham Springs store which was a Winn-Dixie that had been closed for a few years.
wnetmacman
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote:I'm not aware of any Albertsons that closed in BR off the top of my head. By and large they survived both the collapse of the Houston division and the vicious closures that affected the LLC stores. There was a Super Saver that closed, and of course, the short-lived Mandeville store, but amidst all the closures, they did open the Denham Springs store which was a Winn-Dixie that had been closed for a few years.
Prior to the great meltdown, Albertsons had 10 stores in the greater Baton Rouge metro area (which includes Gonzales and Denham Springs). There were three Super Saver stores; 11000 block of Florida, Greenwell Springs Road, and Gonzales. Florida Blvd was an older store, but the other two were less than 10 years old before closing and becoming Super Saver. They didn't last a year. Lafayette also lost one store in 2012 as a part of the LLC closures.

I don't know much about the Denham Springs store. Rouses just opened a store there, and it's supposedly doing quite well. We'll just have to see. I don't see it as a long term solution. The only other survivor is Hammond, and it's fighting against Walmart and Winn Dixie there. The Louisiana WD DC is a mile away.
Scott Greer
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by pseudo3d »

wnetmacman wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:I'm not aware of any Albertsons that closed in BR off the top of my head. By and large they survived both the collapse of the Houston division and the vicious closures that affected the LLC stores. There was a Super Saver that closed, and of course, the short-lived Mandeville store, but amidst all the closures, they did open the Denham Springs store which was a Winn-Dixie that had been closed for a few years.
Prior to the great meltdown, Albertsons had 10 stores in the greater Baton Rouge metro area (which includes Gonzales and Denham Springs). There were three Super Saver stores; 11000 block of Florida, Greenwell Springs Road, and Gonzales. Florida Blvd was an older store, but the other two were less than 10 years old before closing and becoming Super Saver. They didn't last a year. Lafayette also lost one store in 2012 as a part of the LLC closures.

I don't know much about the Denham Springs store. Rouses just opened a store there, and it's supposedly doing quite well. We'll just have to see. I don't see it as a long term solution. The only other survivor is Hammond, and it's fighting against Walmart and Winn Dixie there. The Louisiana WD DC is a mile away.


I should have mentioned that the Lafayette Albertsons I photographed a few months back was facing competition with a new Rouses two and a half miles away, so we'll see how that how that goes.

The thing is, the Louisiana Albertsons all were part of the 1990s push into Houston. As much as this sounds weird and bad, Albertsons would've been better off buying Randalls and converting stores instead of pushing into the Houston metro, as no matter what Albertsons did, they were pumping money into an already oversaturated market for a fraction of a market share. It was a losing battle. The only way it would've worked was if the operators in Houston sucked...which they didn't.

Winn-Dixie, even at the top of their game, had stayed wisely out of Houston (they were in College Station, Dallas-Fort Worth, and Waco, but not Houston) because they knew of those risks.

As for the Louisiana Albertsons, they mostly survived because the Louisiana market really didn't have stronger competitors to bump them out. The New Orleans stores weren't able to saved, but in the end, they by and large survived mostly unscathed. We lived through the LLC days. I saw Albertsons slowly erased out of my own city's market share, Florida, Central Texas, and most of Dallas-Fort Worth.

As for Baton Rouge, the Super Saver stores probably couldn't be saved...much like Winn-Dixie's SaveRite, they were all low-tier stores with the full service departments stripped out and trying to be a discount grocery in a large footprint. But clearly Albertsons LLC must have seen something there, as the store in Denham Springs, a Winn-Dixie that closed nearly six years prior, reopened, presumably with all new equipment. Maybe the Greenwell Springs/Choctaw store isn't ready for reopening yet, but I think it's at least a viable candidate for purchase (a "dark store" for a time) unless the city of Baton Rouge wants to do some sort of project to connect the two Choctaw segments on either side of the tracks.

I wouldn't bet on the DC for anything nowadays. My opinion is that at some point down the line, C&S will finish up a large project Grocers Supply Co. in Houston started before they were sold out (consolidating their facilities on the north side of town), close down the Hammond DC, and Winn-Dixie/BI-LO will put it on the market.
wnetmacman
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by wnetmacman »

pseudo3d wrote:The thing is, the Louisiana Albertsons all were part of the 1990s push into Houston.
Err, not quite. The Johnston Street and second Ambassador stores in Lafayette (yes, there are two on Ambassador in Lafayette) and a couple of the stores in BR were from the 80's. (Johnston was actually from 1978) They were older stores that indeed predated the Houston division.
pseudo3d wrote:I should have mentioned that the Lafayette Albertsons I photographed a few months back was facing competition with a new Rouses two and a half miles away, so we'll see how that how that goes.
And there's another Rouses a mile and a half in the other direction. Rouses definitely could do a little more here.
pseudo3d wrote:As for Baton Rouge, the Super Saver stores probably couldn't be saved...much like Winn-Dixie's SaveRite, they were all low-tier stores with the full service departments stripped out and trying to be a discount grocery in a large footprint.
Actually, several operators have made that work. Kroger has Food 4 Less, Supervalu has Cub (which isn't doing so hot), there are several areas where companies own the right to the County Market name, and Brookshire Grocery has the Super 1 Foods banner. There's more to just selling at warehouse prices; folks want the departments.
pseudo3d wrote:I wouldn't bet on the DC for anything nowadays. My opinion is that at some point down the line, C&S will finish up a large project Grocers Supply Co. in Houston started before they were sold out (consolidating their facilities on the north side of town), close down the Hammond DC, and Winn-Dixie/BI-LO will put it on the market.
C&S was looking for a place to build a large DC to support other customers on the north side of Lake Ponchartrain. WD just gave them an instant space. As of now, they are only servicing WD stores. I don't see anything in Houston replacing this one. It's a 6 hour drive to that point. Most DC's have a day turnaround; they'd have to double up trucks to meet DOT regs.
Scott Greer
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Re: The ever shrinking Winn-Dixie

Post by pseudo3d »

wnetmacman wrote:
pseudo3d wrote:The thing is, the Louisiana Albertsons all were part of the 1990s push into Houston.
Err, not quite. The Johnston Street and second Ambassador stores in Lafayette (yes, there are two on Ambassador in Lafayette) and a couple of the stores in BR were from the 80's. (Johnston was actually from 1978) They were older stores that indeed predated the Houston division.
Fascinating! The 2700-series seems to have started in 1990 with the unofficial creation of the Houston division (at the time, Albertsons was still in "districts" and the DC wasn't built yet), and there are a few odd discrepancies (not accounting for recent renumberings): 2701 was actually opened in 1992 (a former Skaggs/Jewel Osco store) before 2702 (a 1991 store in College Station), and the BR stores are 2709-2713. Johnston Street was 2720. Had to be renumbered from something else...
pseudo3d wrote:I should have mentioned that the Lafayette Albertsons I photographed a few months back was facing competition with a new Rouses two and a half miles away, so we'll see how that how that goes.
And there's another Rouses a mile and a half in the other direction. Rouses definitely could do a little more here.
Well, that particular Rouses was a prototype where you could basically see all the behind the scenes action. Given that it's newer and way cooler sounding, I imagine that Albertsons might have some trouble on that. Not enough to throw in the towel, but enough to cut into its volume.[/quote]
pseudo3d wrote:As for Baton Rouge, the Super Saver stores probably couldn't be saved...much like Winn-Dixie's SaveRite, they were all low-tier stores with the full service departments stripped out and trying to be a discount grocery in a large footprint.
Actually, several operators have made that work. Kroger has Food 4 Less, Supervalu has Cub (which isn't doing so hot), there are several areas where companies own the right to the County Market name, and Brookshire Grocery has the Super 1 Foods banner. There's more to just selling at warehouse prices; folks want the departments.
Well, I don't know about several of those (been to none of them, not even HEB's Joe V's), but I think that for Cub Foods, SuperValu changed that over the course of time to be a more standard supermarket (with prices to match).

Anyway, the Winn-Dixie that closed seems to be in a rough part of town, surrounded by industrial, and the few retail establishments have all closed over the years (Sam's Club, Real Superstore). Going northeast, there's an astonishing amount of empty or mostly empty strip malls...Greenway, Monterey Village, Village Green...with the closure of this Winn-Dixie, it leaves both W-D and Albertsons with NO stores north of Florida Boulevard. For grocery shopping in the immediate area now, there only appears to be a 30,000 square foot Hi Nabor that's been in operation since 1963.

Besides, Albertsons (not counting other legacy divisions like ACME) seems to have never been in the business to marketing to more working-class neighborhoods, anyway.
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